A bhakta on the group mailing list asked this question that reads as follows:
"I have come across two verses in chapter 5 of canto 11 of the Srimad Bhagavata purana, in these verse Narada, explains how Srimannarayana is worshiped the various yugas, and i would like to know how these verses are construed and interpreted by in Sri Vaishnava sampradaya.
Firstly we have Sloka 32 (chapter 5, canto 11)
krishna-varnam tvishakrishnam
sangopangastra-parshadam
yajnaih sankirtana-prayair
yajanti hi su-medhasah
TRANSLATION
In the age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the names of Krishna. Although His complexion is not blackish, He is Krishna Himself. He is accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions.
Secondly there are verses 38-40 in the same chapter
kritadishu praja rajan
kalav icchanti sambhavam
kalau khalu bhavishyanti
narayana-parayanah
kvacit kvacin maha-raja
dravideshu ca bhurisah
tamraparni nadi yatra
kritamala payasvini
kaveri ca maha-punya
pratici ca maha-nadi
ye pibanti jalam tasam
manuja manujesvara
prayo bhakta bhagavati
vasudeve 'malasayah
TRANSLATION
My dear King, the inhabitants of Satya-yuga and other ages eagerly desire to take birth in this age of Kali, since in this age there will be many devotees of the Supreme Lord, Narayana. These devotees will appear in various places but will be especially numerous in South India. O master of men, in the age of Kali those persons who drink the waters of the holy rivers of Dravida-desa, such as the Tamraparni, Krtamala, Payasvini, the extremely pious Kaveri and the Pratici Mahanadi, will almost all be pure hearted devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vasudeva.
Who is being predicted in sloka 32? Gaudiyas interpret this to mean Chaitanya mahaprabhu, the swaminarayans see this as predicting Sahajanada swami (Swaminarayan). What is the view of Sri Vaishnava Purvacharyas in regards to this verse?
In slokas 38-49 does the reference to "the devotees in South India" refer to The Azhwars and Srimad Ramanuja? "
Swamiji's reply to the above query was:
"PRIYA SRIMAN ! JAI SRIMANNARAYANA! WE ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR INTEREST. WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE MEANING CLEARLY.
The meaning of the sloka 32, ch.5, canto 11
Krishnam = Lord Krisha
Twisha = with the glow of the complexion
Krishna varnam = black in color
Sa:ngo:pa:nga:sthra pa:rshadam: - along with 'anga=limbs of the body,
Upa:nga = other physical identities like kowsthubham, sri etc., in the body,
Asthra = weapons like sudarsana, panchajanya etc.,
Pa:rshadam = intimates like sunanda, nandana etc,
Su me:dhasaha = wise
Yajanthi = are worshiping
Yajnaihi = with pujas
Sanki:rthana pra:yaihi = filled with songs etc.
Here when we take the complexion, as it is dealing with Kaliyuga, the mu:rthy must be a deity that is worshiped in temples as Archa Vigraha, made in black stone only, it seems. The Sage Veda Vyasa did not accept white marble, it appears. For sure, it is not dealing with the murthy which moves like that of Vibhava Avathara. Again, krishnam does not necessarily mean Lord Krishna only. Krishna = one who gives immense joy to the devotees. The word Krishna talks about all the forms of Lord Vishnu.
"krishir bhu: va:chakas sabdah, nas cha nirvruthi va:chakaha" ' one who gives abundant joy'
When you take the meaning like this, then only it goes with the meaning of the other slokas 38 etc. As you have observed, the slokas from 38 are talking about Azhwars only. The reason is so clear here. 'narayana parayanah' = who chant the divine name of 'narayana' means those who are dedicated to Lord with ashta:kshari maha manthra. Only Azhwars and their followers do so. Other Sampradaya people have their own manthras and ways. For taking narayana ashtakshari, pancha samskaram is essential. Followers of Azhwars & Acharyas only do so, but not other sampradaya people you have mentioned.
It is only the azhwars, always identified with the sacred rivers they were living with, even today. Others cannot claim that at all. They were only the wise talked about the Archa A:ra:dhana in their songs in Divya Prabandhas. For Azhwars, archa is the ultimate, but not just means to the ultimate. The great sage Veda Vyasa was predicting the forth coming appearance of Azhwars in his slo:kas.
"Jai Srimannarayana Swamiji,
I had some confusion about Sage Vishwamitra. We hear about Sage Vishwamitra in many places:
[1] Much before the Lord Rama came down to the earth. (Vishwamitra was the one who build the heaven for the ancestor of Lord Rama, Satyavrata, later called as Trishanku). [2] Then Vishwamitra went into penance with an enimity with Sage Vasista. Thats when Gayathri mantra was given to us.
[3] During the penance Menaka comes down and from them is born the Bharatha dynasty king - Dushyant. So does that mean while Lord Rama's dynasty (SuryaVamsa) were ruling in Treta Yuga, the seed for the Bharatha's dynasty (ChandraVamsa) was sown and set to begin in Dwapara Yuga? in which Yugas did the Chandra Vamsa and Surya Vamsa dynasties gain importance?
[4] During the Ramayana time which is in the Treta Yuga the sage educates Sri Rama and Sri Lakshmana in their youth by taking them to the forest.
[5] We also hear Sage Vishwamitra during Lord Venkateshwara's time which is Kali Yuga (I think so, is that correct?)
My confusion is what are the chronological timings of these events? Is it the same Sage Vishwamitra that is being talked about everywhere? How is it possible for Sage Vishwamitra to be alive for so long? How come no mention of him or any encounters with him during the Mahabharatha time, which is Dwapara Yuga?
Please forgive me if I have made any mistake in mentioning the events.
Jai Srimannarayana,
Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan"
Swamiji's reply to my query:
"Priya sriman Karthikji!
Jai Srimannarayana!
We are happy for your interest to know about sage Viswamithra. There were no many Viswamitras, like other sages. Only one was there, who was highly praised by Sage Valmiki. When you talk about the age, in those days they used to live long, like thousands of years. It was not a big issue in those days at all. Sumanthra the minister of Dasaraddha, Ravana, Vasishta etc., were living even in Krutha Yuga. So also Viswamithra. Now a days, we people started comparing with our own knowledge and age and experience, which is wrong.
Another Lo:ka created for Trisanku by the same Viswamithra, who was having enimity earlier with Sage Vasishta. Menaka met with the same Sage, yes! To his own credit he made penance for thousands of years on each corner of this country. He met with different issues on each of these corners. But he was the same Sage.
Rama belongs to Surya Vamsa. After Rama, approximately 32 generations were continuing. Then there may be some gap. During Rushabha Deva again the Chandra Vamsa started in Ayodhya. This might have started after a few lakhs of years, when dwapara yuga was started.
Some people say that yugas go in some thousands. Even that is wrong. They go in 4:3:2:1 ratio, which altogether come to 43,20,000 years. The size of human beings also was not as we see them today. Recently, some skeleton found in North Indian Desert was so amazingly huge, may be between 30 to 50 feet height. There was some record also found along with it, which was not totally revealed by the Govt. but says that they were interacting with Brahma and Siva etc. We will try to put that information for you soon as soon as it is available. So people living for thousands of years was not a great thing in those days.
Finally, it was the same sage Viswamithra, who was mentioned in all the episodes you have memtioned and he lived for many a year, before and after Rama. He did not appear in Ramayana after Rama's marriage, but he was there. We are not sure whether Viswamithra's mention was there anywhere in Lord Venkateswara's History?" ¶ 10:10 PM 0 comments
Sriman C Saibaba on the JETUSA yahoogroups asked the following question:
"Humble pranams at the Lotus Feet of Swamy! With the divine enlightenment from 'Swamy' on various subjects, disciples like me, same age as 'SWAMY', and to have HIS Darshan, Bhashan and Margadarshan.
We all know that Lord Vishnu has Ten Incarnations as Matsya, Koorma, Varaha, Nrusimha, Vamana, Parasurama, Rama, Krishna, Budha and Kalki. Some even say that Balarama is also the Incarnation of Lord Vishnu. Is it correct? Similarly, I am little bit confused since Lord Venkateshwara, the presiding deity of Tirumala and Lord Jagannath, the presiding deity of Puri are not in the Ten Incarnations of Lord Vishnu. Of course, Lord has many manifestations, but Avatarams like Matsya, Koorma and Vamana have got mentioned in the ten incarnations, whereas the Lord of Seven Hills and the Lord of Shri Kshetra have not been mentioned. I would like to pray 'SWAMY' to enlighten all of us the reasons for this.
I am further confused about Lord Vishnu as to whether the Vishnu who has incarnated in the ten Avatarams and the Vishnu to whom 'Vishnu Sahasranama Stotram' is recited are One and the Same. I may kindly be excused if I am wrong in my questions. But I could not resist myself to get enlightened by Swamy.
Jai Shrimannarayana"
Swamiji replied to the question as follows:
"PRIYA SRIMAN SAIBABAJI!
JAI SRIMANNARAYAANA!
ACCORDING TO LORD KRISHNA HIS INCARNATIONS ARE INNUMERABLE. VYASA BHAGAVAN ALSO DECLARES THE SAME. FOR THE SAKE OF OUR UNDERSTANDING THEY HAVE CHOSEN 10 IN AN ORDER LIKE FISH, TURTLE, BORE ETC., AMONG THESE, SOME ARE DIRECT INCARNATIONS VIZ., VA:MANA, RAMA, KRISHNA ETC., BUT INCARNATIONS LIKE PARASURAMA, BALARAMA ARE NOT DIRECT AVATHARAS. THEY ARE CALLED AVE:SA AVATHARAMS. IT MEANS FOR SOME TIME LORD IMPOSES ON THEM AND DOES SOME WORK THROUGH THEM. LATER HE WITHDRAWS THE IMPOSITION. THEN THAT AVATHARAM WILL BE OVER. IT IS THE SAME WITH BOTH OF THE ABOVE, WE CAN OBSERVE. AFTER RAMA TOOK BACK BOW FROM PARASURAMA, HE BECAME A NORMAL SAGE. SO ALSO AFTER YAMUNA RIVER DIVERSION, BALARAMA'S IMPOSITION ALSO WAS WITHDRAWN.
THERE ARE MANY MORE AVATHARAS LIKE RISHIS AND KINGS LIKE PRUTTHU ETC., THE VISHNU SAHASRA NAMA WE CHANT AND THE VISHNU WHO HAS TAKEN MANY AN INCARNATION, IS ONE AND THE SAME. THOSE AVATHARAS WHICH KEEP MOVING ON THIS EARTH AND DO SOMETHING ARE CALLED 'VIBHAVA AVATHARAS' OR INCARNATIONS. WHERE AS THOSE AVATHARA WHCIH ARE APPEARING ON THIS EARTH, EITHER BY PRAYERS OF SOME OR BY HIMSELF (SWAYAM VYAKTHA), IN AN IMMOBILE FORM (deity IN THE TEMPLES) ARE CALLED 'ARCHA AVATHARAMS'. IT IS SAID THIS ARCHA AVATHARA IS MORE POWERFUL THAN VIBHAVAS AND OTHER FORMS OF GOD.
LORD PURI JAGANNADHJI, LORD VENKATESWARA SWAMY CAME HERE TO BE AS ARCHA MURHIS ONLY. HENCE, THEY WERE NOT INCLUDED IN THE TEN AVATHARAS LIST. AS WE HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED AVAATHARAS ARE NOT JUST ONLY TEN. THEY ARE BEYOND THE COUNT." ¶ 9:58 PM 0 comments
